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when I first heard about this I didn't

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believe it at all uh somebody says you

3
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want to meet Bud Hopkins who's he this

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was two and a half years ago oh he's a

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man who believes in people stories of

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people who've been taken on to

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spaceships I thought he must be crazy

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and the people he's working with must be

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not so at all what I discovered was that

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he was talking about people who are

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completely sincere they don't claim

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they've been taken by aliens anyways

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they're very reluctant to come forward

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with their stories the stories that they

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were telling consistently as I began to

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meet with these people myself there was

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nothing in my psychiatric work over 40

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years that prepared me for the

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consistency of these stories the fact

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that they're told by children as young

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as two years old with physical marks

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Cuts scoop marks and the rest the

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association with UFOs and that these are

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not people who are mentally ill and

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there's nothing in my background that

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prepared me for this set of experiences

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as a psychiatrist you are telling us

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they're not mentally ill these are not

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delusions we're talking about absolutely

30
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not they they're troubled people because

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as you heard from Pat and Michael these

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are very disturbing experiences and they

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have a kind of post-traumatic quality to

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them but it's not just post-traumatic

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because they this can happen again to

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them at any time it's not like over once

37
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it's happened and those experiences are

38
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disturbing but the disturbing feelings

39
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experiences they have does in no way

40
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accounts for the experience what is

41
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causing this that's the mystery I've had

42
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people come to me saying they want to be

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told this is a dream a fantasy even they

44
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had a man that came to me just last week

45
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and said I doctor I'm coming to you

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because I want you to tell me that I'm

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crazy I don't want to believe that these

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experiences are real the implications

49
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for this person's world view are so

50
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staggering but as Freud once said Theory

51
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doesn't prevent facts from showing up

52
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it's nonsense to attribute this to the

53
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hypnosis itself increasingly I'm seeing

54
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people who remember a good deal of a

55
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story before hypnosis they remember

56
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being taken on this question taking on

57
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to the spacecraft they remember the

58
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beans but the experience is so

59
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disturbing that the Mind puts it down

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and puts it out of mind and anything we

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can use to help people relax and go

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Inward and bring back the experience can

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help bring it forward but to say that

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because they're filling out the

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experience with hypnosis that therefore

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the hypnosis generated for example right

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nothing that we've experienced prepares

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you for the power of what these people

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go through during the hypnosis sessions

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the the intense fear the body shaking

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the the rage the sense of humiliation

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it's it's completely persuasive because

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of the emotional power of What comes

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forth it just cannot be fantasy it

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cannot be something that's made up and

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that that's what's hard to convey if

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you're just looking at the content of

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the report I think this kind of debate

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which is healthy in a way but it's also

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preventing us from getting on with what

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these powerful experiences that are

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happening to so many hundreds of

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thousands if not millions of people what

84
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does this mean for this culture a lot of

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the people have these experiences

86
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actually when they face up to them and

87
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when they really go into it deeply

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grow as human beings do you know what it

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means I don't know what it means but it

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certainly means something that could be